Apple vs Fortnite - What is a fair rev share for an App Store?
So if you sold a game for a buck and a developer, you'd only get back maybe $0.30. This changed when Apple released the App Store, the Apple App Store, and that became the place where you wanted your apps to be. And Apple did a lot to kind of standardize the industry to create one place marketplace. The developers are no longer fragmented. You don't have to create different types of bills and app for different devices and different platforms and different storefronts
Todd Mitchell
@Todzilla · 4:00
Steam store takes 30. Humble Store takes 25, but I think it's just because they want to beat somebody by 5% and go, hey, come over and see us. I really believe the free market can take care of this. If enough publishers get sick of Apple and pull their games, you will see people start to go. Man. Iphone is not good for gamers. If you like gaming on a mobile device, you better check out Android or whatever's next
Howie Rubin
@Howie · 1:41
When I was a game developer, I hated dealing with the Nintendo's and the Sony's and the Segas of this world where they made me bow down to them. When I had to adhere to rules and regulations, where I spent tons of money developing product, only to have to go to them to get their approval to publish it for them to tell me how many I can publish when I could publish it, why I could publish it
Shammi Mohamed
@shammi · 3:24
And in that it mentioned that Apple's business model was making money by selling premium hardware while they broke even on their software services. That is interesting. I know the number of apps at that point was very different compared to now, but still it seems quite nominal that they broke even charging 30% from developers considering they haven't changed that 30%. It doesn't seem like they are really taking advantage of their situation at this point
Sudha Varadarajan
@sudha · 3:01
And when companies become monopolies to ensure that they put in pathways for competition to come in and the person who finally benefits will be the consumer. So I do believe that there has to be a way for a secondary app store for iphone customers to choose from, and that will ensure that over the next ten years, the Apple App Store doesn't become lazy in the services that it provides. The end consumer and that customers have a choice
Todd Mitchell
@Todzilla · 0:39
So again, I'm not sure why we need to come in and explain to Apple that they can't use what is still industry standard rate rates on their own platform when there is such a serious competitor that they are actually trailing behind it
Sudha Varadarajan
@sudha · 1:50
Hi Todd. I think operating systems notwithstanding, and I do agree that the Android operating system has a much larger market share than the iOS operating system system, but I still as an end customer, do not have a choice between multiple app stores, whereas I do have choices when it comes to maps providers or music services
Shammi Mohamed
@shammi · 4:40
But you say you want that specific game from Epic, which Epic has decided not to bring onto the iOS platform. At that point, the problem is between you and Epic, not between you and iOS, and just to apply the monopoly regulations over here, I don't think there is a necessity for any regulation over here to facilitate another major player for cutting into the market share of another major player. Monopoly regulations exist for major players, suppressing competition for minor players
Shammi Mohamed
@shammi · 1:45
Any upcoming game developer does the same thing or any other app that runs on iOS does the same thing. And Furthermore, in the rare cases where these charges are different, I think Amazon pays a different rate or Amazon. Amazon has an agreement with Apple for the video streaming services that I see as market forces, the free market forces really pushing towards those. So as of now, I really don't see a problem here
All other services, an App Store kind of other providers can provide them. But App Store is one thing they cannot. And on top of that, Apple itself has not been really consistent here. Right. Because if you look at Mac, which is OS and that's the other platform that Apple makes, the only difference between Mac as a platform and iphone as a platform is that when it's a larger device and a smaller device, pretty much right
But if you look at any kind of real business model, that 30% of right off the top of your revenue is definitely going ahead. And again, in this particular case, I don't care between Apple and Epic games who makes the money because that will just be billions of dollars from I think one or millions of dollars from one bottom line to another. Bottom line. Right. Both are big players and they can take care of themselves
Todd Mitchell
@Todzilla · 1:08
I do appreciate the logic of this discussion and the sort of the logic behind this argument. However, if Tim Sweeney is sincerely trying to make this argument, it doesn't pass the doctrine of clean hands. He's doing doing exactly what he's accusing Apple of in that case, because I think it's fair to say we really know it's not about this. It's not about an open platform. He wants control and he wants publishing on his terms
Shammi Mohamed
@shammi · 4:46
And till today, I don't think iOS is really leading the charge on a lot of the innovative features, right? I mean, like, you hear of a lot of innovative features coming first on Android and Apple finally picking them up. So I think from that aspect, the ecosystem seems to have that we aren't what do you call stuck in this world where we are hampering innovation and the progress of technology going along with that same line? Let's see what that really got us
Shammi Mohamed
@shammi · 2:41
So I did want to touch about you mentioning the user acquisition bit being lumped in with the 30%. I never looked at the user the help that you've got from being featured in the App Store as some service that they offered you for the 30%
Howie Rubin
@Howie · 2:59
I have to agree with Shammi. I think that the fight is for 30% is between the platform and the developer, and maybe that will come down. Maybe it won't come down. I don't don't think that price point has anything to do with the quality of games and or the quality of apps that the user is using, and I don't think the user will benefit from the government stepping in and saying an app store represent monopolies that are unfair and that are hurting the consumer
Swell Team
@Swell · 0:15
Howie Rubin
@Howie · 1:50
So this whole process of developing that first user base is really a function of testing retesting, tweaking tweaking retweeting and making sure that you are delivering the kind of messages that you have to be able to deliver in order to get that user to push the appropriate buttons so they install the product. After that, you have to start to worry about how do I retain the consumer? How do I keep him busy anyway? I think that this is something that every app developer must really pay serious attention to
Shammi Mohamed
@shammi · 3:01
Again, I am assuming that this whole process is governed by some well thought of protocols that are in place. And the reason I kind of fall in this camp is because as an app developer, an indie app developer, game developer, I was featured in the App Store, and that was crucial for my app having the little amount of success it did
Howie Rubin
@Howie · 0:31
Hi Xiaomi, I hear you, but I still don't like the fact that apps are subjective to people reviewing them, giving them ratings. And then the app developer having to depend on those people who give the ratings to really like the app. And when I think in terms of the number of apps that are released on a monthly basis, I wonder how these groups of critics get to review all the apps just makes me uncomfortable, comfortable
Shammi Mohamed
@shammi · 1:17
Epic, I believe, has filed with the courts to kind of get protection against that. If that doesn't go through in time and if Epic is cut off from the whole Apple ecosystem, that could be pretty bad for Epic in the short term, at least. So this just got very interesting. It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out
Howie Rubin
@Howie · 0:47
Good morning, Xiaomi. Today's, Wall Street Journal has articles about the epic fight. Apparently, they are going to court to sue both Apple and Google. Stay tuned. The Wall Street Journal also talks about the fact that the attorney general is looking into the antitrust lawsuit with Google, and he's trying to determine whether he, in fact, has a case to bring against them
Shammi Mohamed
@shammi · 2:22
If they wanted to not have the 30% to the App Store, they could have just sidestepped it and put no links to their store, but still made it so that you could have bought it completely through a browser or completely outside, but honored those purchases in Game. I think that Apple would have been fine with and if indeed the pricing was an issue with consumers, the free market would have decided and you would have seen more traffic go through their websites instead of through the App Store
Todd Mitchell
@Todzilla · 1:08
I mean, the Port may go one way or the other on this thing, but Tim Sweeney acting like, hey, help emergency. That is insane. And I knew it was going to sound like I knew anything he could go to court with after the way he conducted himself was going to sound just absolutely insane. And here we are, and it's only going to get worse